As I read this chapter, I totally got the perception that Helen went with Paris of her own accord. Not that simple huh? Menelaus wants her back for honor *and* love? I love your discussion because I’m new to these epic poems.
This chapter was interesting - I could understand the storyline. Her remorse was so sincere. I thought about how marriages break up and the chaos that brings to families. I was rooting for Menelaus for so many reasons.
“So many questions present themselves. Was Helen abducted against her will? Did she fall for Paris in the usual way that people fall for each other? They were both young and beautiful after all, or did Aphrodite — ever mindful of her promise — arrange the whole thing? Certainly, in some tellings of the story, the goddess sent her son Eros to Sparta to pierce Helen with one of his arrows, to induce her to fall in love with Paris. Was Aphrodite also behind the death of Catreus, the sudden event that had called Menelaus so conveniently away? These are questions that have always been asked, and will be asked until the end of time. But what we can say with confidence is that Paris sailed away with much of Menelaus’s palace treasure, including the greatest treasure of all — the beautiful Helen.”
The Rest is History’s two episodes on Helen of Troy go through a whole did she go willingly analysis - according to Sappho she went willingly - so I am going with that, holding her accountable whether or not Aphrodite make her do it.
One poignant bit is Helen looking for Castor and Pollux and not finding them. Unbeknownst to her they're dead (I'm not sure how). Didn't Castor and Pollux rescue her from Theseus who had her imprisoned in Athens? Anyway she remembered them and their tragic fate was unknown to her as of yet...
Yeah, I thought I had missed something and went down a google rabbit hole about this. I guess that was a story people of the time would be familiar with?
The intervention of Aphrodite in this book is one of the most maddening and unsatisfactory to my modern eyes in the epic. Of course it's too soon and too easy for the thing to be resolved now, but hoo boy what a way to drag it out.
I find it helps to think of the god’s interference in the context of all the bad decisions I have ever made - that last drink, that bad relationship, that overly optimistic purchase, saying yes to a ridiculous demand by a 6 year old and paying for it, saying no to a reasonable demand by a 7 year old and paying for it - the gods made me do it - it all makes sense
With sci-fi or fantasy, readers prefer novels with fixed laws, no matter how fantastical. That's why I find the role of the gods, so far, to be quite frustrating. As you mentioned above, they manipulate affairs on a whim. Is the takeaway that the universe is utterly random, and you can be struck by doom or luck at any time? Or are we to ponder the motivations of the gods in the same way as mortals?
I think to the audience this was originally told to it may have been a bit of earth. Life is very random and it can be hard to understand why certain things happen. Humans have always looked for reasons as to why (many religions are built on this premise). I think what makes the Greco-Roman gods interesting is they're fallable beings, like humans - prone to squabbles, pettiness, favouritism etc
Thank you for your thoughts around how the Iiliad reflects the role of women in war, Matthew. I read the book when I was 17, and I always remeber it being a very 'masculine' book - it being about fighting, male heros etc. That may have been the way I was taught it, or just becasue it was the 90's or I was just wasn't as tuned in to women's stories then but coming back to it in 2025, a lot older and wiser, and having read wider it's intersting to see how women are represented.
Reading the chapter and your summery I just kept thinking that if I was in Helen's place how guilty I would feel. All these people's lives are being destroyed becasue of me? I'm not sure how I could deal with that sort of burden, especially if I don't feel I have any say in it/have been coerced by the gods. What a truly awful postion to be in
Excellent essay, and the art reminds us how powerful the influence of Homer’s tales has been throughout the development of Western civilization.
The mischievous machinations of the gods seem to be the way for ancient Greeks to account for randomness, luck, serendipity, etc. That’s something that societies and individuals will always struggle with. An unavoidable part of the human condition.
One bit I found interesting was the sacrifice of the goats. The ceremony and shared prayer really brought home the point that these are the same people from the same culture, essentially, making their war seem even more futile and tragic.
Now that you mention it, have they really been hauling around a heard of goats on their swift ships for the past 10 years? Are they stealing goats wherever they land? 🤔🐐
Different characters assign blame for the war differently. When Hector chastises Paris, he blames Paris. Then goes on to say that his gifts from Aphrodite won’t help him in the battlefield. The gifts he lists are lyre, hair and beauty. But Paris says that gifts from the gods must not be thrown away. In that phrasing the gifts can easily include the gifts that Hector omitted: Helen.
Later on Priam says to Helen that he doesn’t blame her, he blames the gods. He seems to be in the minority. The Greeks and most of the Trojans blame Paris.
Your last line in reading myths how the underlying theme is a deeply human story. When I taught World History, I always mentioned the myths and stories that go with the group of people we were studying. I would say, it give us an idea of what people were like, their dreams and joys and sorrows. 'Berta
Helen’s beauty is described as awful. It makes men mad with love, lust, will to possess. It gives her great power but no agency. I recently watched the movie Parthenope beautifully set in Naples which explores how a woman’s beauty has influenced her life - my interpretation of the movie is that she chose to not rely on her beauty for her life’s purpose - but that means she had the ability to choose which most of the characters in the Iliad do not given the interfering gods. Free will becomes a question in the Iliad as much as in the bible or for that matter modern neuroscience.
I really like your question about belonging. In the modern world many, if not most people have a foot in many camps without delving into the fraught question of identity. On a long walk this morning it occurred to me that belonging is not an either/or - dichotomy. This also depends on availability of choice and free will. You can choose to belong by adapting or learning new cultures, you can leave a family structure where you do not belong, you can question whether your feelings of not belonging may not be true - CBT style and you can even use your sense of being an outsider to make really good comedy - see most funny stand-up. Helen was also a demi-god as are other characters in the Iliad, including Achillies and there is a sense of their being outside events despite being protagonists at the same time.
Always a great idea to go for a walk after reading. I think I’m gonna do this regularly. Never read about this in all those recent ‘becoming a reader’ articles, but I just realized it should become an essential element of adopting regular deep reading practices. Thanks for the inspiration!
A beautifully written analysis! I love how Helen’s complexities highlight timeless themes like agency, guilt, and the emotional toll of conflict. When you think about it we have parallels even today.
I'm enjoying your summations of the three books we've read so far; and they are very helpful in understanding and tying together details I may have missed while reading. I admit, I do need to start working on reading more closely; this should be a good exercise in doing so. The role of women in war is so interesting to ponder, and I look forward to seeing how it is fleshed out further as we get into the poem more.
As I read this chapter, I totally got the perception that Helen went with Paris of her own accord. Not that simple huh? Menelaus wants her back for honor *and* love? I love your discussion because I’m new to these epic poems.
This chapter was interesting - I could understand the storyline. Her remorse was so sincere. I thought about how marriages break up and the chaos that brings to families. I was rooting for Menelaus for so many reasons.
The Patriarchy- I bristle.
From Stephen Fry's Troy:
“So many questions present themselves. Was Helen abducted against her will? Did she fall for Paris in the usual way that people fall for each other? They were both young and beautiful after all, or did Aphrodite — ever mindful of her promise — arrange the whole thing? Certainly, in some tellings of the story, the goddess sent her son Eros to Sparta to pierce Helen with one of his arrows, to induce her to fall in love with Paris. Was Aphrodite also behind the death of Catreus, the sudden event that had called Menelaus so conveniently away? These are questions that have always been asked, and will be asked until the end of time. But what we can say with confidence is that Paris sailed away with much of Menelaus’s palace treasure, including the greatest treasure of all — the beautiful Helen.”
Thanks for this. Excellent.
The Rest is History’s two episodes on Helen of Troy go through a whole did she go willingly analysis - according to Sappho she went willingly - so I am going with that, holding her accountable whether or not Aphrodite make her do it.
One of my favorite books in the series. We really get to learn the core of what makes Hector into Hector. Thanks Matthew.
Thanks, Matthew. I enjoyed reading this. The reflections at the end tie it together making the book so relevant in our lives today.
One poignant bit is Helen looking for Castor and Pollux and not finding them. Unbeknownst to her they're dead (I'm not sure how). Didn't Castor and Pollux rescue her from Theseus who had her imprisoned in Athens? Anyway she remembered them and their tragic fate was unknown to her as of yet...
Yeah, I thought I had missed something and went down a google rabbit hole about this. I guess that was a story people of the time would be familiar with?
The intervention of Aphrodite in this book is one of the most maddening and unsatisfactory to my modern eyes in the epic. Of course it's too soon and too easy for the thing to be resolved now, but hoo boy what a way to drag it out.
I find it helps to think of the god’s interference in the context of all the bad decisions I have ever made - that last drink, that bad relationship, that overly optimistic purchase, saying yes to a ridiculous demand by a 6 year old and paying for it, saying no to a reasonable demand by a 7 year old and paying for it - the gods made me do it - it all makes sense
“Let’s settle this war with a 1 v. 1, deal?”
[Looks at 90% of book left to go]
Me: yeah, this is gonna go well… 😂
I bet Helen would have had quite the Instagram following
With sci-fi or fantasy, readers prefer novels with fixed laws, no matter how fantastical. That's why I find the role of the gods, so far, to be quite frustrating. As you mentioned above, they manipulate affairs on a whim. Is the takeaway that the universe is utterly random, and you can be struck by doom or luck at any time? Or are we to ponder the motivations of the gods in the same way as mortals?
I think to the audience this was originally told to it may have been a bit of earth. Life is very random and it can be hard to understand why certain things happen. Humans have always looked for reasons as to why (many religions are built on this premise). I think what makes the Greco-Roman gods interesting is they're fallable beings, like humans - prone to squabbles, pettiness, favouritism etc
Bit if *both*!
Check out Dan Simmons’ Ilium - which makes the gods aliens.
Thank you for your thoughts around how the Iiliad reflects the role of women in war, Matthew. I read the book when I was 17, and I always remeber it being a very 'masculine' book - it being about fighting, male heros etc. That may have been the way I was taught it, or just becasue it was the 90's or I was just wasn't as tuned in to women's stories then but coming back to it in 2025, a lot older and wiser, and having read wider it's intersting to see how women are represented.
Reading the chapter and your summery I just kept thinking that if I was in Helen's place how guilty I would feel. All these people's lives are being destroyed becasue of me? I'm not sure how I could deal with that sort of burden, especially if I don't feel I have any say in it/have been coerced by the gods. What a truly awful postion to be in
“However, the gods intervene” - Classic! And awesome exploration of Helen’s character, Matthew. You go so in-depth!
Excellent essay, and the art reminds us how powerful the influence of Homer’s tales has been throughout the development of Western civilization.
The mischievous machinations of the gods seem to be the way for ancient Greeks to account for randomness, luck, serendipity, etc. That’s something that societies and individuals will always struggle with. An unavoidable part of the human condition.
One bit I found interesting was the sacrifice of the goats. The ceremony and shared prayer really brought home the point that these are the same people from the same culture, essentially, making their war seem even more futile and tragic.
Now that you mention it, have they really been hauling around a heard of goats on their swift ships for the past 10 years? Are they stealing goats wherever they land? 🤔🐐
Haha, great question. And sometimes it's a "hecatomb" which is a hundred oxen??? Where are all these livestock coming from?
Noah’s Ark and RV emporium?
Different characters assign blame for the war differently. When Hector chastises Paris, he blames Paris. Then goes on to say that his gifts from Aphrodite won’t help him in the battlefield. The gifts he lists are lyre, hair and beauty. But Paris says that gifts from the gods must not be thrown away. In that phrasing the gifts can easily include the gifts that Hector omitted: Helen.
Later on Priam says to Helen that he doesn’t blame her, he blames the gods. He seems to be in the minority. The Greeks and most of the Trojans blame Paris.
Your last line in reading myths how the underlying theme is a deeply human story. When I taught World History, I always mentioned the myths and stories that go with the group of people we were studying. I would say, it give us an idea of what people were like, their dreams and joys and sorrows. 'Berta
Thoughts after a long walk:
Helen’s beauty is described as awful. It makes men mad with love, lust, will to possess. It gives her great power but no agency. I recently watched the movie Parthenope beautifully set in Naples which explores how a woman’s beauty has influenced her life - my interpretation of the movie is that she chose to not rely on her beauty for her life’s purpose - but that means she had the ability to choose which most of the characters in the Iliad do not given the interfering gods. Free will becomes a question in the Iliad as much as in the bible or for that matter modern neuroscience.
I really like your question about belonging. In the modern world many, if not most people have a foot in many camps without delving into the fraught question of identity. On a long walk this morning it occurred to me that belonging is not an either/or - dichotomy. This also depends on availability of choice and free will. You can choose to belong by adapting or learning new cultures, you can leave a family structure where you do not belong, you can question whether your feelings of not belonging may not be true - CBT style and you can even use your sense of being an outsider to make really good comedy - see most funny stand-up. Helen was also a demi-god as are other characters in the Iliad, including Achillies and there is a sense of their being outside events despite being protagonists at the same time.
Always a great idea to go for a walk after reading. I think I’m gonna do this regularly. Never read about this in all those recent ‘becoming a reader’ articles, but I just realized it should become an essential element of adopting regular deep reading practices. Thanks for the inspiration!
A beautifully written analysis! I love how Helen’s complexities highlight timeless themes like agency, guilt, and the emotional toll of conflict. When you think about it we have parallels even today.
I'm enjoying your summations of the three books we've read so far; and they are very helpful in understanding and tying together details I may have missed while reading. I admit, I do need to start working on reading more closely; this should be a good exercise in doing so. The role of women in war is so interesting to ponder, and I look forward to seeing how it is fleshed out further as we get into the poem more.