In Mediterranean and Persian iconography, human power was symbolized by the Bull. And divine power was embodied in the Lion (this could also be called the power of Nature). Hector is the bull in this scene, pawing the ground, sensing victory. Both Zeus and Achilles are Lions, divine, yes, and as dangerous at rest as on the hunt.
Thought provoking as always. So in all of Zeus’ machinations, where is his father Cronos, who I have to assume as a fellow immortal is still hanging around somewhere? Isn’t he ever like, “son, what have I told you…” 🤣 One passage that jumped out at me was the metaphor to the dead soldier (I forget who it was) whose body was compared to a drooping poppy flower. Brutal, beautiful, and awkward all at once!
Chris, the whole pantheon confuses me at times. Zeus is the all-powerful father of the gods - but he has parents? Where are they in all this? I haven't studied the backstory enough to know but it seems like our boy Zeus had a rough upbringing which may be why Olympus is such a mess these days.
Once again, your essay provides needed (at least for me) clarity and deeper understanding. My initial takeaway from Zeus warning other gods to stand down and then Zeus himself intervening was just a an example of Zeus's duplicity.
Until reading your essay, my focus seems to have been too much on the whimsy and perfidy of the gods, overlooking the uncontrollable role of fate. It seems when you mix all of these forces together, man can conjure up an explanation or justification for whatever happens, pretty much eliminating any element of free will. Interestingly, the debate about the role of free will v. what is hardwired in our brains continues robustly in modern times.
The prominence and power of Hector in Book 8 shows how strong a mortal could become with Zeus in his corner. Hector becomes dominant in all respects and virtually immune from harm.
One detail confused me a bit. When Athena is gearing up to intervene, she complains about Zeus favoring the Trojans, but at the same time mentions that Zeus is fulfilling the plans of Thetis who begged Zeus to exalt Achilles (Fagles, lines 423-425). I don't see how favoring the Trojans is exalting Achilles. If Athena believes Achilles will ultimately be exalted, why does she feel compelled to intervene? My confusion may just be a lack of understanding.
My favorite line in all of Book 8 is the very first. What a lovely description of dawn.
Once again, the art accompanying the essay is great -- and I love the comments from Bump on a Log, as well as Bump on a Log's name. Wish I had thought of that!
Favouring the Trojans exalts Achilles, because it proves they can’t win without him. Athena’s fear is that by allowing the Trojans to dominate, in order to exalt Achilles, the Greeks will be massacred
Last year I read War and Peace (again). In it, Tolstoy denies the great-leader cause of historical success or otherwise. Instead it is an accumulation of small events leading the progress of history. One soldier yells "Huzzah!" instead of "Run for your lives!" and the fate of a battle can be determined. It seems that in the Iliad, instead we have the whims of the Gods and their interventions to explain all these small events that change history.
Despite all the bravado and machismo shown in this chapter I did like the fact that Hector’s horses are called Swiftfoot, Blondie, Flame and Sparkle. Reminded me of My Little Pony
What struck me about Book 8 is the tension between suspenseful storytelling and fateful inevitability.
At the end of Book 8, night falls on the battlefield and the stage is seemingly set for a climactic outcome when fighting resumes the next morning. Hector tells the Trojans "My hopes are rising now..." (Bk.8, line 612). He prays to Zeus that he and his comrades will defeat the Achaeans once and for all and "drive them off to death." (8:12-14) Book 8 ends as the Trojan soldiers "roared assent" to Hector's urging. "As their spirits soared" they huddle overnight around blazing watchfires, believing victory over the Achaeans is imminent. (8:638-640) We readers are left feeling that this may indeed happen the next day.
At the same time, though, we know that fate has something else in store for the Trojans and for Hector. Despite the stage setting that ends Book 8 that has us feeling the climax of the fighting is near, we also know that the story is longer and more complicated. Zeus himself has said earlier in Book 8 that "Hector will never quit the fighting, not till swift Achilles rises beside the ships..." (8:546-547) This foretells the narrative twist that occurs in Book 9, The Embassy to Achilles, when the Achaeans will entreat Achilles to save them from their impending defeat at Hector's hands the next morning. It also foreshadows the real climax of The Iliad much later in the story.
There's no need here for an apologetic spoiler alert. By now, eight books in, we know very well that what seems inevitable is really not. Despite the power of Zeus and the meddling of the other gods, the mortals in this story have real agency to shape events and determine the war's outcome. Their pride, anger and courage matter. We empathize as they struggle with their emotions and we root for them to do right by their comrades.
My reading of The Iliad is well along. I'm about half way through Book 11, running somewhat ahead of our schedule. I'm enjoying every line. Thanks again, Matthew, for organizing this reading and leading us through this cornerstone of western literature.
In Mediterranean and Persian iconography, human power was symbolized by the Bull. And divine power was embodied in the Lion (this could also be called the power of Nature). Hector is the bull in this scene, pawing the ground, sensing victory. Both Zeus and Achilles are Lions, divine, yes, and as dangerous at rest as on the hunt.
Thanks for this insight James. I don't believe I was aware of this symbology. Definitely adds interesting context.
Thought provoking as always. So in all of Zeus’ machinations, where is his father Cronos, who I have to assume as a fellow immortal is still hanging around somewhere? Isn’t he ever like, “son, what have I told you…” 🤣 One passage that jumped out at me was the metaphor to the dead soldier (I forget who it was) whose body was compared to a drooping poppy flower. Brutal, beautiful, and awkward all at once!
Chris, the whole pantheon confuses me at times. Zeus is the all-powerful father of the gods - but he has parents? Where are they in all this? I haven't studied the backstory enough to know but it seems like our boy Zeus had a rough upbringing which may be why Olympus is such a mess these days.
My main takeaway from Book 8: Even goddesses must bear the brunt of misogyny. Insolent brazen bitches, unite!
Ha! No woman shall escape the idiocy of man :)
Once again, your essay provides needed (at least for me) clarity and deeper understanding. My initial takeaway from Zeus warning other gods to stand down and then Zeus himself intervening was just a an example of Zeus's duplicity.
Until reading your essay, my focus seems to have been too much on the whimsy and perfidy of the gods, overlooking the uncontrollable role of fate. It seems when you mix all of these forces together, man can conjure up an explanation or justification for whatever happens, pretty much eliminating any element of free will. Interestingly, the debate about the role of free will v. what is hardwired in our brains continues robustly in modern times.
The prominence and power of Hector in Book 8 shows how strong a mortal could become with Zeus in his corner. Hector becomes dominant in all respects and virtually immune from harm.
One detail confused me a bit. When Athena is gearing up to intervene, she complains about Zeus favoring the Trojans, but at the same time mentions that Zeus is fulfilling the plans of Thetis who begged Zeus to exalt Achilles (Fagles, lines 423-425). I don't see how favoring the Trojans is exalting Achilles. If Athena believes Achilles will ultimately be exalted, why does she feel compelled to intervene? My confusion may just be a lack of understanding.
My favorite line in all of Book 8 is the very first. What a lovely description of dawn.
Once again, the art accompanying the essay is great -- and I love the comments from Bump on a Log, as well as Bump on a Log's name. Wish I had thought of that!
Favouring the Trojans exalts Achilles, because it proves they can’t win without him. Athena’s fear is that by allowing the Trojans to dominate, in order to exalt Achilles, the Greeks will be massacred
Zeus being a total hypocrite was what stood out to be in this chapter. Not easy being a god, having to decide the fates of so many, huh?
Last year I read War and Peace (again). In it, Tolstoy denies the great-leader cause of historical success or otherwise. Instead it is an accumulation of small events leading the progress of history. One soldier yells "Huzzah!" instead of "Run for your lives!" and the fate of a battle can be determined. It seems that in the Iliad, instead we have the whims of the Gods and their interventions to explain all these small events that change history.
Despite all the bravado and machismo shown in this chapter I did like the fact that Hector’s horses are called Swiftfoot, Blondie, Flame and Sparkle. Reminded me of My Little Pony
What struck me about Book 8 is the tension between suspenseful storytelling and fateful inevitability.
At the end of Book 8, night falls on the battlefield and the stage is seemingly set for a climactic outcome when fighting resumes the next morning. Hector tells the Trojans "My hopes are rising now..." (Bk.8, line 612). He prays to Zeus that he and his comrades will defeat the Achaeans once and for all and "drive them off to death." (8:12-14) Book 8 ends as the Trojan soldiers "roared assent" to Hector's urging. "As their spirits soared" they huddle overnight around blazing watchfires, believing victory over the Achaeans is imminent. (8:638-640) We readers are left feeling that this may indeed happen the next day.
At the same time, though, we know that fate has something else in store for the Trojans and for Hector. Despite the stage setting that ends Book 8 that has us feeling the climax of the fighting is near, we also know that the story is longer and more complicated. Zeus himself has said earlier in Book 8 that "Hector will never quit the fighting, not till swift Achilles rises beside the ships..." (8:546-547) This foretells the narrative twist that occurs in Book 9, The Embassy to Achilles, when the Achaeans will entreat Achilles to save them from their impending defeat at Hector's hands the next morning. It also foreshadows the real climax of The Iliad much later in the story.
There's no need here for an apologetic spoiler alert. By now, eight books in, we know very well that what seems inevitable is really not. Despite the power of Zeus and the meddling of the other gods, the mortals in this story have real agency to shape events and determine the war's outcome. Their pride, anger and courage matter. We empathize as they struggle with their emotions and we root for them to do right by their comrades.
My reading of The Iliad is well along. I'm about half way through Book 11, running somewhat ahead of our schedule. I'm enjoying every line. Thanks again, Matthew, for organizing this reading and leading us through this cornerstone of western literature.